Dec 06 ,2024 – Visit from Gyeonggi Province Governor, Happy Dialogue (13) Goyang City
Today, the Governor of Gyeonggi Province visited the Jungto Social and Cultural Center to have tea with Sunim, and the thirteenth lecture of the Happy Dialogue Dharma Q&A was held in Goyang City, Gyeonggi Province.
After completing his morning practice and meditation, Sunim attended to various tasks indoors during the morning. After handling several matters, it was lunchtime, and he headed to the Jungto Social and Cultural Center.
Venerable Dongmyeong, a senior member of the Jogye Order and the abbot of Jeondeungsa Temple in Seoul, visited the Jungto Social and Cultural Center to converse with Sunim. They had lunch with simple food prepared by volunteers and then moved to the reception room of the Peace Foundation.
The two had an honest and serious conversation about the life of practitioners and Korean Buddhism. Venerable Dongmyeong humbly began the conversation.
“I became a monk at a young age. Although I’ve been a monk for a long time, I still have many shortcomings, so I came here to learn from Venerable Pomnyun.”
“You’re too kind, Venerable.”
Sunim shared what he had learned through various social practices.
“People might think that I have been meticulously planning my activities. But in fact, I have simply been following the flow of karmic connections naturally. Things often started with connections I made while walking on the path. In India, I met a young man by chance and ended up running a school. In Bhutan, too, I continue activities through connections I made by chance. Even the North Korea aid project was decided after witnessing corpses floating down the Yalu River by chance, not because I had a grand plan from the beginning.”
After an hour and a half of conversation, Venerable Dongmyeong expressed his gratitude.
“I have learned a lot from your words and attitude towards life.”
“I’m grateful that you took the time to visit.”
After taking a commemorative photo together, Venerable Dongmyeong was seen off.
Shortly after, at 3 PM, Kim Dong-yeon, the Governor of Gyeonggi Province, arrived. It was a long-standing appointment as he had expressed his desire to meet and talk with Sunim. They greeted each other warmly.
“Sunim, do you remember when I came alone with just a backpack last time?”
“Of course. It’s been a few years already.”
After shaking hands, they sat down and exchanged greetings. Given the chotic state of affairs, the conversation naturally turned to the political situation and leadership. Sunim asked about the difficulties in governing the province. Governor Kim spoke about the realities and challenges of Gyeonggi Province, which has surpassed a population of 14.4 million.
“Gyeonggi Province is experiencing population growth. About 27% of the national population resides here, and the role of local government is becoming increasingly important.”
Sunim emphasized the importance of local autonomy and pointed out the limitations of the authority held by local governments.
“Local autonomy needs to be strengthened. With the current limited budget and authority, it’s difficult for regions to compete and develop. We need a structure where successful policies can be experimented at the local level and then expanded to national policies, rather than being initiated by the central government.”
Lastly, he mentioned the attitude and historical responsibility that politicians should have.
“The most important things for a politician are historical consciousness and a sense of public service. Without dedication to the country and its people, one loses the essence of politics. Especially in times of confusion like now, there’s a greater need to design the future with a sense of responsibility. The more chaotic the political situation, the more important it is to maintain focus and be faithful to one’s role. Now is the time to pay attention to public sentiment while focusing on provincial administration.”
Governor Kim agreed and honestly shared the limitations he feels in the current political sphere. Sunim emphasized that politics should not become an obstacle to national development. Governor Kim expressed deep agreement with Sunim’s words and conveyed his gratitude.
“I will take your words to heart and do my best in the role I can play in Gyeonggi Province.”
After the conversation, they took a commemorative photo together.
After all the guests had left, Sunim had a simple dinner and departed for Goyang City, Gyeonggi Province at 5:30 PM.
Today is the day of the thirteenth Happy Dialogue lecture in Goyang City, Gyeonggi Province. The lecture is being held in the 5th floor auditorium of Dongguk University Ilsan Hospital.
Although it was a distance that could be covered in 40 minutes, it took 2 hours due to traffic congestion. Sunim arrived at the lecture hall at 7:20 PM, just before the start of the lecture. Volunteers in festive attire were warmly welcoming people.
Sunim was scheduled to have tea with Venerable Neungji, the abbot of Ilsan Hospital’s main Dharma hall, before the lecture, but due to time constraints, they only exchanged brief greetings.
“I apologize. The traffic was heavy due to the evening rush hour.”
In the lecture hall, the band ‘ASH&BUSH’, which sings about the joys and sorrows of middle-aged men, was performing their song ‘Men Are Pitiful’.
As the song ended, Sunim took the stage amidst loud applause. About 350 audience members were present. Sunim gave his opening remarks.
“The world is quite unsettled and unprdictable these days. I hope you’re all doing well without any issues. The declaration of martial law was wrong, but I’m glad it was resolved without major physical conflicts or violence. It would have been better if such incidents hadn’t occurred at all, but it’s fortunate that there was no violent confrontation in the midst of it. I think there will be many questions from you today. Let’s start our dialogue right away.”
Four pre-registered questions were received, and three more people raised their hands to ask questions on-site. One of them expressed frustration at seeing people behave without manners towards others and asked for Sunim’s advice on how to manage such feelings.
I Want to Return the Unpleasantness to People Who Behave Without Manners
“But why do you think you’re foolish? Even if someone else calls you foolish, you should question why they’re saying that. No one is calling you foolish, so why are you calling yourself foolish?”
“When I listen to Sunim’s Dharma Q&A, it seems you say to ignore rude people…”
“I’ve never said to ignore them.”
“Then should I go and point out their mistakes, confront them about why they’re behaving that way, and argue?”
“If you want to do that, go ahead.”
“Is that really okay?”
“Of course.”
“Really?”
“Did I tell you to endure it? I’ve never said such a thing. If you want to go and fight, go and fight. If you want to point out their mistakes, go ahead and do so.”
“Then, if I go and fight, and people around ask why I did that, can I say that Venerable Pomnyun Sunim told me to do so?”
“If you had no intention of fighting at all, and I told you to go and fight, then that would be correct. But that’s not the case. You’re saying you want to confront them now. So I’m telling you that if you want to confront them, go ahead. But why are you making it sound like I told you to do it? For example, if you ask, ‘Can I eat this?’ and I say, ‘Go ahead,’ or if you ask, ‘Can I not eat this?’ and I say, ‘Go ahead,’ it ultimately means do as you wish.”
“I thought my problem was that I had a lot of anger. Is it okay to tell the other person why I’m angry when I get angry?”
“Of course. There’s no problem with doing that.”
“Thank you. This is a new approach I hadn’t considered.”
“If you don’t want to resolve the relationship, you can do that. If you want to confront, go ahead. What if voices are raised? What if you grab their hair? Then you might go to jail for assault. This is called ‘karmic consequence.’ You accept the consequences of your actions. Just don’t say you didn’t fight because you’re nice. The truth is, you want to fight too, but you don’t because you can’t take responsibility for what happens afterward. So I’m saying, try acting on your emotions once. After you do, evaluate it again. See whether it’s better for you to endure even when you don’t like the other person, or whether it’s better to act on your emotions, regardless of ethics and morals. Compare which is better.
Sometimes, it might be better to act on your emotions. Even if you suffer a loss, you might feel relieved after expressing your feelings. But if you regret acting on your emotions, then you shouldn’t do it next time. You don’t stop because someone tells you to do it or not to do it. It’s not because it doesn’t align with ethics and morals either. You don’t do it simply because you suffer a loss when you do.”
Ethics and morality didn’t exist from the beginning. They emerged after years of experience knowing that stealing from others results in greater loss. For example, imagine a community where ten people live in one room, and someone keeps stealing. If only you could steal and prevent others from doing so, it would be beneficial to you. However, in an open community, if you steal, others will do the same. As this creates chaos within the community, the ethical principle of not stealing from others was developed. The same applies to not hitting others. When you hit someone out of anger, it might feel satisfying momentarily, but it leads to a fight as the other person retaliates. When seeking revenge, one usually wants to hit twice after being hit once to feel satisfied. This, in turn, provokes the other person’s desire for revenge. Thus, the ethical principle of not hitting others was established. In this way, ethics and morality were created to protect oneself, not for the sake of others.
If someone asks, “I want to hug a woman. Is it okay to do so?” I would reply, “If you want to hug her, go ahead. But be prepared to be arrested as a sexual offender and spend a year in prison.” If you can accept that and think, “It was worth spending a year in prison to hug someone I wanted to hug,” then it’s fine. However, if you end up in prison regretting, “I should have restrained myself at that moment,” then you shouldn’t hug someone just because you want to. Why? Because it would be detrimental to you.
Similarly, when someone asks, “Why should I suppress my anger when I want to express it?” I tell them to go ahead and express it. I suggest trying both ways and comparing the results. This way, they can experience that while both options may lead to some loss, one might result in a greater loss than the other. By experiencing this, they can learn to avoid the worst outcome. So, I encourage them to try it out. It’s irresponsible to say, “Sunim told me to do it.” We must take responsibility for our own actions.
Becoming angry or confrontational when someone’s behavior is unpleasant inevitably leads to conflict. This is because what I perceive as the other person’s mistake may differ from what they consider to be their mistake. So, while I might think the other person is wrong, they might believe they’ve done nothing wrong. If I express anger, the other person might respond with even greater anger. They might think, “Is this person crazy?” This, in turn, makes me angrier as I think, “They’ve done something wrong and don’t even realize it.” Consider why people are even more angry now. It’s because the president imposed martial law, preventing people from sleeping, and then acted shamelessly. If he had at least bowed his head and apologized, it might have been better. But by acting as if he’s done nothing wrong, he’s infuriated the people, causing them to take to the streets.
When conflicts are severe, it’s because people have different perspectives. The easiest way to resolve conflicts is to understand that “the other person must have had their reasons.” It means thinking that the person either doesn’t know ethics and morality well, or even if they do, there must have been some reason why they couldn’t act differently. If you accept that this could be the case, your mind becomes at ease.
However, if you feel that “this needs to be addressed,” it’s okay to do so. When driving a car, you sometimes need to change lanes. Occasionally, you might have to park illegally in an alley. In really urgent situations, you might even want to drive on the shoulder of a highway. But when others do these things, we get extremely angry. We get upset, saying, “Why are you changing lanes?”, “How can you park here?”, “How can you drive on the shoulder?” We do these things when we have reasons, but when others do them, it’s unacceptable. If we get a ticket for illegal parking, we complain, “Why didn’t they ticket the car in front, why only mine?” Instead of accepting punishment for breaking the law, we blame others first. This is a child-like mindset. When children are pointed out for their mistakes, they always make excuses. When asked why they came home late, they say, “Why were you late, Dad?” They never say “I’m sorry” but always make excuses. When told not to watch TV, they argue, “Why are you watching TV, Mom?” This is typical child behavior.
Truth is not something special. Truth is understanding others in relation to ourselves and understanding ourselves in relation to others. As much as possible, we should not be trapped by our emotions. In a trapped state, even if we see with our eyes, we don’t really see, and even if we hear with our ears, we don’t really hear. This state of not knowing is called “ignorance.” It is from this ignorance that suffering arises. When anger, sadness, and all kinds of suffering arise, if we understand others in relation to ourselves and see ourselves in relation to others, we can break free from this trapped state. When we move beyond the state of being focused only on ourselves, our eyes can see and our ears can hear, and right understanding arises. This is called “wisdom.” When wisdom arises, there’s nothing left to suffer about. This is the essence of the Buddha’s teachings.
In our daily lives, foolishness and wisdom arise moment by moment. We become wise and clear-minded for an instant, then immediately turn foolish and angry. This cycle repeats, which is why we are told to “always be awake.”
When we strongly believe that others are wrong, we become more attached to our views. Understanding others helps dissolve this attachment. When we are deeply attached, we can’t hear what others say or see what’s in front of us, no matter how hard they try to communicate. If you can recognize, “I’m attached,” when you feel the most intense anger, the path to enlightenment opens up.
However, this rarely happens when we’re angry. In normal circumstances, when Sunim explains this, everyone seems to understand. But when someone provokes us, we immediately become attached and can’t practice this. That’s why there’s an old saying that having someone who provokes your anger helps with practice. If someone keeps irritating you, you become attached more often, and by practicing awareness in these situations, you gradually become freer.
Therefore, the worse your environment, the deeper your practice can become if you maintain the right perspective. This is because you have more opportunities to practice. When others treat you well, there are fewer occasions to become attached. It’s not that you’re aware and don’t get angry, but rather that the environment doesn’t provoke anger. Practice is about maintaining equanimity even in difficult situations. It’s about developing the strength to do this. So, when you find yourself suddenly attached or angry, practicing letting go of your thoughts will help you gain strength in your practice much faster. But it’s easier said than done. Often, we become most foolish just before attaining enlightenment. Just as it’s darkest before dawn and coldest before sunrise, we can be most foolish right before enlightenment. That’s why we say, “Take one more step at the top of a hundred-foot pole.” When it’s darkest, taking just one more step can lead us to a bright world, but we often suffer at dead ends, repeating the same things thousands of times.
“Thank you. I understand.”
The questions continued.
My 22-year-old son is quiet. I want to have longer conversations with him. Also, how can I avoid feeling jealous when I see him being lovey-dovey with his wife after marriage?
Marital conflict that started with discord with my mother-in-law has deepened. How can I restore my relationship with my wife and live well for our child?
My daughter, who is receiving help from me after a major accident, feels sorry towards me and has low self-esteem. How can I make her feel comfortable and boost her self-esteem?
I get angry when I recall past incidents with people who bullied me. How can I wisely accept this?
Regarding the current president’s declaration of martial law, I hope the Korean Minutemen for Peace and Unification (KMPU) will actively engage in impeachment efforts. Is it appropriate to use the name of KMPU?
What kind of politician should citizens elect?
As the conversation was wrapping up, a question arose about how to view the situation in South Korea, which had fallen into chaos due to the president’s declaration of martial law. Sunim answered this question as he concluded the lecture.
“The president’s declaration of martial law is completely inappropriate for the national status of 21st century South Korea and is embarrassing. However, on the other hand, there’s no precedent in the world for such a major incident to end in just six hours. Not a single drop of blood was shed, and no one was arrested before the situation was resolved. In Thailand or Myanmar, when martial law was declared and coups occurred, many people were sacrificed over several years. But in South Korea, the incident was concluded in six hours, and those who caused it were all summoned to the National Assembly to explain themselves. While this declaration of martial law is hard to understand, the fact that it was resolved in six hours is also surprising to people around the world. It’s also remarkable that civilians, after watching broadcasts or YouTube, arrived at the National Assembly before the military. So we can’t say this incident was entirely bad or shameful. We need to see both sides of this situation.
South Korea is a country where citizens are highly aware, but at the same time, there’s a risk of such incidents occurring. This is because of the confrontation between North and South Korea. Therefore, if martial law is declared while causing a military conflict between the North and South, there’s a possibility that a coup could succeed. In fact, this is the most dangerous scenario.
However, why did they act so clumsily after declaring martial law? Even if they are soldiers, South Korean citizens will leak information to the outside if they feel something is unjust. Usually, soldiers are positioned in advance at the National Assembly and all media outlets before martial law is imposed. This is because control is only possible if occupation occurs simultaneously with the announcement of martial law. But is this feasible in our country where everyone has a mobile phone? When soldiers are deployed, they send text messages saying, “I’m going somewhere now.” They text their friends, “I’m on my way to arrest someone,” and people flee before the soldiers even arrive. Just look at the parliamentary hearings. All kinds of mishaps occurred. To maintain absolute secrecy, only two people should know, so others were left in the dark and became fools. It’s not just a laughing matter; this can be said to be the current situation in South Korea.
If martial law had not been lifted, we would have had to take action to confront tanks. In such times, we must stand up courageously. We should be able to exercise our rights as citizens without fear even in the face of such dangers, but fortunately, we can say we’ve passed that dangerous moment. However, this doesn’t mean all problems have been resolved. There are still aftershocks remaining. I believe there’s a high possibility that our citizens can resolve these aftershocks on their own.
Sunim concluded the lecture to thunderous applause.
Immediately after the lecture, Sunim held a book signing session on stage. Many citizens lined up to greet Sunim and express their gratitude.
“Thanks to you, Sunim, I’ve become so much happier. Thank you.”
After the book signing, Sunim took a commemorative photo with the volunteers who prepared the lecture.
“Happy citizens of Ilsan, let’s go for it!”
Sunim expressed his gratitude to the volunteers. He then left the lecture hall and headed straight for the Seoul Jungto Center.
After an hour’s drive, Sunim arrived at the Seoul Jungto Center at 11 PM and concluded his day’s activities.
Tomorrow morning, Sunim will conduct a live Dharma Q&A session for young people called “Youth Talk Talk.” In the afternoon, he will participate in a coal briquette delivery service in Guryong Village, organized by “Gilbeot,” a group of broadcasting, film, theater, and art professionals, followed by a discussion. In the evening, he will attend a youth camp to engage in dialogue with young people.
