Nov 21, 2024 – Meeting with North Korea Expert, Invited Lecture at Seoul National University Buddhist Students’ Association
Good morning. A new day has dawned at the Seoul Jungto Center.
After completing his early morning practice and meditation, Sunim headed to the Peace Foundation. Today is the monthly meeting with North Korea experts to assess the current situation in North Korea and discuss peace on the Korean Peninsula.
After breakfast prepared by the Peace Foundation staff, Sunim examined the living conditions of North Korean residents and reviewed changes in exchange rates and food prices. The discussion covered various topics, including the trends following the deployment of North Korean troops to the Russia-Ukraine war, and changes in the international situation due to Trump’s re-election.
After seeing off the North Korea experts, Sunim reviewed next year’s schedule and welcomed another guest who arrived at the Peace Foundation. At 11:30 AM, he had lunch together with the guest and conversed for an hour in the reception room.
At 1:20 PM, Sunim met with a public figure outside to discuss current national issues. After a two-hour meeting, he returned to the Seoul Jungto Center.
As the sun set, Sunim headed to Seoul National University at 6 PM for a lecture. After a 50-minute drive, he arrived at the large lecture hall in Building 83 of Seoul National University where the lecture was to be held.
The Seoul National University Buddhist Student Association invited Sunim to give a lecture at their 66th anniversary celebration. The association, which started as the Seoul National University Law School Buddhist Student Association, laid the foundation for the youth Buddhist movement. In the 1960s, it launched the University Buddhist Federation, spreading the seeds of Buddhism to universities nationwide. In the 1970s, it led the first democratization movement in the Buddhist community, demonstrating a spirit ahead of its time. Sunim, who had guided the University Buddhist Federation in his younger years, gladly agreed to give the lecture.
When Sunim arrived at the lecture hall, the president of the Seoul National University Buddhist Student Association warmly welcomed him. The entire invited lecture was prepared directly by current students, not alumni.
At 7 PM, the invited lecture began with the recitation of the Three Refuges and the Heart Sutra. The venue was filled with about 250 people, including Seoul National University students and members of the general public.
First, Venerable Unseong, the guiding Dharma teacher of the Buddhist Student Association, gave a greeting.
“I’m so nervous because Venerable Pomnyun Sunim, whom I respect so much, has come to Seoul National University today. So I can’t say much else. Welcome, everyone.”
Next, the president of the alumni association gave a congratulatory speech.
“Forty-one years ago, I attended a 5-day retreat with Venerable Pomnyun Sunim at Mangwolsa Temple in Gyeongju. I remember it was incredibly challenging. We toured various valleys of Namsan in Gyeongju, and I realized for the first time how rugged Gyeongju’s Namsan was. Sunim gave many great lectures, but I don’t remember any of them – only the hardships remain in my memory. I hope that the Dharma connection you’ve made today will become a source of life for you all.”
Then, sunim walked onto the stage, everyone cheered.
The audience requested the Dharma talk with three bows. Sunim began the conversation by introducing his connection with the Seoul National University Buddhist Student Association.
“I sincerely congratulate the Seoul National University Buddhist Student Association on its 66th anniversary. As I came here, I was reminded of something my teacher, the great Venerable Bulsim Domun, did in the past. He served as the guiding Dharma teacher for both the Seoul National University Law School Buddhist Student Association and the entire Buddhist Student Association. And meeting the president of the Buddhist Student Association alumni here today reminded me of the retreat we had together in Gyeongju. It seems I taught many things, but the alumni president says he doesn’t remember any of the good lessons, only the hardships. So I’m thinking mischievously, ‘For future retreats, I should skip the lectures and just make them work hard.’ (Laughter)
Sunim does not believe there is a specific right or wrong way to live life. Fundamentally, he thinks that “people should live as they please.” However, the problem is that there are people who suffer even while living as they please. Just as someone might eat what they like and then complain of a stomachache, people fall in love or get married of their own accord and then cry out in agony. At such times, we wonder, “Why is this happening?” No one forced them to do it, yet they suffer after doing what they wanted. This is when we need to reflect on “What went wrong?”
Dharma Q&A is a dialogue that helps resolve various troubles you encounter in life. It’s a conversation where we examine, “Why did this problem arise even though I started it because I wanted to?” and work to eliminate the cause, thereby alleviating the suffering.”
Many Seoul National University students attended the lecture hall. Before starting the Dharma Q&A, Sunim explained the uniqueness of Buddhism that differentiates it from other religions to spark more interest in Buddhism among the students.
“You’ve gathered here probably because you’re interested in Buddhism. What makes Buddhism unique? Let me talk about that a little. Among the many things the Buddha first spoke about in this world, I think there are two most representative ones. First is the law of dependent origination, and second is the Middle Way. The law of dependent origination speaks about our worldview – how we should view this world. The Middle Way speaks about our practice – how we should practice. These two are also interconnected. Because of the law of dependent origination, there is the Middle Way, and because of the Middle Way, there is the law of dependent origination.
The Buddhist Worldview: All Beings Are Interconnected
At the time of the Buddha, regardless of the philosophy or religion, the worldview of all thoughts saw this world as a collection of individual entities. Since ancient times, it was often expressed as “all things in the universe are myriad phenomena.” Each individual entity was thought to have its own unique characteristics, and this world was seen as a collection of such individual entities. Isn’t society a collection of people? That’s why Hobbes defined the basic characteristic of society as “the war of all against all.” Because the world was seen as a collection of individual entities, natural phenomena were also understood in terms of “survival of the fittest” and “the strong prey on the weak.”
Darwin thought that all beings didn’t exist as they were from the beginning, but gradually evolved through changes. Looking at numerous fossils laid out, he discovered that “these weren’t created by God from the beginning, but have gradually changed,” and he called this “evolution.” However, he didn’t know the principle of evolution. Later, many theories about the principle of evolution emerged. All sorts of theories came out, from survival of the fittest to the use and disuse theory, then the mutation theory, and recently, even genetics. The reason why the principle of evolution was understood as survival of the fittest or the strong preying on the weak was because this world was seen as a collection of individual entities. Just as snakes eat frogs, it was thought that all beings live by the principle of survival of the fittest and the strong preying on the weak.
However, when the Buddha attained enlightenment and saw this world as it is, he discovered that no being exists as an individual entity, but all are interconnected. This is the law of dependent origination. ‘Yeon’ (緣) means “to depend on,” and ‘Gi’ (起) means “to arise,” so it means “to arise depending on.” This was a uniqueness of Buddhism that no one had thought of at that time. When we say the Buddha attained enlightenment under the Bodhi tree, what did he realize? It was the law of dependent origination. In other words, the world as we know it is different from the actual world. The world as we know it is a collection of individual entities, but the actual world is an interconnected world. The Buddha expressed this in one sentence:
“When this exists, that comes to be; with the arising of this, that arises. When this does not exist, that does not come to be; with the cessation of this, that ceases.”
In this sentence, “When this exists, that comes to be; when this does not exist, that does not come to be” refers to spatial interconnection. “With the arising of this, that arises; with the cessation of this, that ceases” refers to temporal interconnection. Temporal interconnection means the relationship between cause and effect. This was later doctrinally organized as “non-self” (anatta) and “impermanence” (anicca). “Non-self” and “impermanence” are the law of dependent origination. If you understand the law of dependent origination, that is, if you understand the true nature of existence as it is, there will be no suffering. This is called “nirvana.” But if you don’t understand it, you can’t help but suffer. This is called “dukkha” (suffering). In this way, the teachings of Buddhism are very simple. The goal of Buddhism is to reach a state without suffering, that is, nirvana. This can be said to be the uniqueness of Buddhism.
The Law of Dependent Origination is not contradictory to modern scientific perspectives. The origin of water is a water droplet. If we continue to split a water droplet until it can no longer be divided, we call this the fundamental particle of water. In particle theory, this is referred to as a water molecule. Can we split a water molecule further? Yes, we can, because molecules are composed of even smaller particles called atoms. Even the smallest particle of water is not an independent entity but a combination of oxygen and hydrogen. Are oxygen and hydrogen independent particles then? Dalton’s atomic theory claimed they were. However, it was later discovered that atoms are composed of atomic nuclei and electrons, which are further made up of protons, neutrons, mesons, and other subatomic particles. Even atoms are not independent entities but are composed of various subatomic particles. Are these subatomic particles independent? No, they are made up of combinations of quarks. Thus, when compared with today’s scientific research findings, Buddhism shows no contradictions.
What about life? We often think that life has seeds too. However, research into the fundamentals of life led to the discovery of genes. Genes are merely highly designed combinations of numerous atoms and molecules. What happens if we change this combination? If we manipulate genes, the seed itself changes.
2,500 years ago, the Buddha did not study biology or matter. He studied our mental processes. He researched the principles and fundamentals of mental processes and attained liberation. However, what the Buddha discovered is not contradictory to the principles of the material world or life revealed by today’s scientific developments. Still, it would be an exaggeration to say “Buddhism is science.” We can only say that there is no logical contradiction between scientific facts and Buddhist teachings. Therefore, if we understand these Buddhist concepts and apply them to the material world, we can gain ideas that could help uncover principles in the material world that have not yet been explained. The law of dependent origination, in particular, can be applied to both the material world and the world of living beings. Even today’s social science can be seen as a kind of law of dependent origination. This applies not only to spatial connections but also to temporal ones. The temporal connection is precisely the “cause and effect of karma.”
Buddhist Practice Theory: Avoid Extremes
Buddhism’s uniqueness also lies in its method of practice. In traditional Indian thought during the Buddha’s time, there were two schools: hedonism and asceticism. When we have desires or cravings and fulfill them, we feel good. This is called pleasure. The claim that pleasure is happiness is called “hedonism.” According to hedonism, to be happy, we need to be more pleased, and to be more pleased, we need to fulfill more of our desires. However, the Buddha rejected this traditional thinking. Of course, rejecting traditional thought was not unique to the Buddha. During his time, the traditional caste system centered on Brahmanism was collapsing. As existing ideas failed to explain the changing world, many new thinkers emerged with novel claims. In mainstream Brahmanism, only those born into the Brahmin caste could become thinkers; other castes could not. However, these emerging thinkers believed that the status of a practitioner was determined by one’s own decision, not by birth. This decision meant leaving home and family. Instead of seeking blessings by fulfilling desires, they saw desire as the root of all suffering. They believed that true liberation could only be achieved by thoroughly suppressing desires without allowing them. This is called “asceticism.”
Buddha was born as a prince and grew up in the mainstream ideological circle. However, feeling the contradictions of mainstream thought, he moved towards non-mainstream ideology and became a renunciant. After renouncing, he chose the path of asceticism for six years, practicing extreme austerities. Having experienced both mainstream and non-mainstream paths, Buddha was able to see their contradictions clearly and proposed a third path that transcended both. This is what we call the ‘Middle Way’ (中道).
You may have heard the term ‘Middle Way,’ but it might not feel concrete to you. For example, when meditating, if your legs hurt, you might want to stretch them out. If you stretch your legs because they hurt, that’s hedonism. It falls under the pursuit of pleasure. Conversely, if you endure the pain in your legs, that’s asceticism. Asceticism creates tension, doesn’t it? When you endure, you’re not comfortable and become tense, making it difficult to reach nirvana. If you stretch your legs, you’re following your desires, which creates consequences. If you endure, you’re resisting your desires, which creates stress. Neither is a path to freedom from suffering. Buddha’s greatness lies in transcending both. Buddha discovered that while these two seem opposite, they are actually the same in that they both react to desire. Not only is following desire being a slave to it, but resisting desire is also being a slave to it. When desire arises, both following it and resisting it are reactions to desire. They’re both reactions to desire, just in opposite directions. We’re always reacting to desire like this. We endure even when we feel bad. Enduring is painful. Because it’s painful, emotions burst out. When emotions burst out, consequences follow, so we regret, “I should have endured a little longer…” So next time we endure again, then burst out again, and this back-and-forth between asceticism and hedonism is our life.
The new path Buddha proposed is not reacting to desire at all. That is, when your legs hurt, you simply feel the pain. When pain arises, our first reaction is usually “I don’t like this.” But before reacting with “like” or “dislike,” you simply feel. When pain arises, you just notice, “There is pain.” You just notice, and since you haven’t stretched your legs, externally it looks like asceticism. However, since you’re not gritting your teeth and enduring, you don’t experience stress. You’re not acting, but you’re not experiencing stress either. When practicing, if you grit your teeth and force yourself, that’s ‘training’ or ‘discipline,’ not practice.
“Relax all tension and simply notice in a state of ease”
This is the third path that Buddha discovered. Through this method, Buddha reached liberation. The content of Buddha’s first sermon after his enlightenment was not about worldview, but methodology. He first taught the Middle Way, saying, “Practitioners should not lean towards either extreme, abandon both extremes,” then he taught the Four Noble Truths, and the Eightfold Path. This is the content of the First Turning of the Wheel of Dharma.
The core of early Buddhism during the Buddha’s time was the Middle Way and the law of dependent origination (pratityasamutpada). Terms like nirvana, liberation, and Buddha already existed in traditional Indian thought before the Buddha. However, the Middle Way and the law of dependent origination were new concepts. The goal of practice is to attain nirvana, and one who attains nirvana is a Buddha. To attain nirvana, one must overcome ignorance, which is called enlightenment. Overcoming ignorance means seeing things as they truly are, which is dependent origination. Dependent origination is expressed in other terms as “impermanence” and “non-self.” Traditional Indian thought at the time emphasized “self” (a substantial entity that can be called “I”) and “permanence” (unchanging and eternal), so these were negated using the terms “impermanence” (Anicca) and “non-self” (Anatta).
When I conduct Dharma Q&A sessions, I rarely discuss theoretical aspects of ideas or philosophy. However, since this is Seoul National University and you’re all quite studious, I’ve given a longer introduction to the theoretical aspects because people like you tend to be interested in such discussions. Nevertheless, the essence of the Buddha’s teaching is to be free from suffering. A Dharma talk isn’t about explaining dependent origination and the Middle Way. If a conversation helps someone overcome suffering, that conversation is considered a Dharma talk.
Sunim then took questions. Four people asked questions and engaged in dialogue with him. One of them, feeling frustrated by the language barrier in science and engineering studies, asked for Sunim’s advice on how to approach their studies.
I Feel Frustrated by the Language Barrier in Science and Engineering
“This is like a student saying they want to go to a good university but don’t want to study. If you don’t want to study, you should give up the idea of going to a good university. If you want to go to a good university, you have to study even if you don’t like it.
Most of the leading fields in science and engineering have already established academic ecosystems in English-speaking countries. If you don’t want to use English, you can create a third ecosystem outside of this. China is currently attempting to do this. China is also at a crossroads, whether it will successfully build its own independent ecosystem or fail. Unlike China, our country has an alliance with the United States, which is at the forefront of the world, and we have the most active exchanges with them. Initially, when we adopted Western culture, we received it through Japan. At that time, it wasn’t a problem that we didn’t know English because Japan had already created all the terminology while adopting Western culture first.
However, now we are adopting Western culture directly without going through Japan, so we use English directly instead of using Japanized Korean words. This means we’re directly importing and studying cutting-edge knowledge, which is different from receiving knowledge that has been digested once. Because of this direct import, we can now compete with Japan. If we were still receiving knowledge digested by Japan as before, we wouldn’t be able to compete with them. So now, there’s no other way to resolve the difficulties caused by English.
Alternatively, you can conduct original research, just like Master Wonhyo did. In modern terms, Master Wonhyo and Master Uisang represent domestic and foreign-educated scholars, respectively. Uisang went to China to study under Master Zhiyan, the most renowned scholar there, before returning. Wonhyo, on the other hand, set out to study abroad but attained enlightenment and remained in Korea. He realized that truth resides within one’s mind, not in books, China, or India. Consequently, he created the Hwaeom school independently, without studying under anyone else.
Similarly, after learning the existing technologies, if you innovatively research and develop the next level of technology to become a world leader, future generations won’t need to struggle with learning English. BTS, the iconic K-pop group, primarily sings in Korean, sprinkling in English as a seasoning. As a result, people worldwide must sing in Korean to perform BTS songs, much like how we used to sing English pop songs in the past. When you become a global leader in a field, such phenomena occur.
The reason we still need to learn foreign knowledge in schools is that we’re still lagging behind. If you want to avoid this process, there are two ways. First, you can abandon fields like science and engineering where this is unavoidable and move to areas like popular music where it’s not necessary. Then you don’t need to learn English or study abroad in the United States or France. Currently, if you want to play the piano or violin, you have to go to Europe, right? But if you want to pursue popular music, Korea is at the forefront, so people from other countries come here instead of us going elsewhere. This happens because we’ve taken the lead in one field. If you become a world leader in your field, the same thing will happen there. However, in the current science and technology fields, American creativity is still ahead of other countries. Even the first mobile phone was invented in the United States. While our country can imitate existing things and improve their functionality, we’re not yet as good as the United States at creating entirely new things that didn’t exist before.
In the past, Japan was the country that excelled at improving and refining existing technologies. Now, Korea is doing what Japan used to do. To become a country that creates new things, our education system needs to change. Imitation-based education has right and wrong answers. To foster creativity, we need education without definitive answers. When a child says something, we shouldn’t respond with “That’s wrong.” Instead, we should say, “That’s an interesting way to think about it.” This allows for the free formation of thought processes. However, because we’re always imitating, we focus on whether we’ve copied the advanced examples correctly or incorrectly. As a result, we’ve developed a culture where there’s always a correct answer, and anything different is constantly pointed out as wrong.
If pursuing a career in popular music is the first option, the second option is to decide, “Although I’m learning this way, I’ll ensure my descendants won’t have to do the same.” When people can study in their native language, their competitiveness significantly increases. So, for the sake of future generations, even though we may currently learn in another language, we should overcome this and advance to a level where we can handle the world’s most advanced technology in our mother tongue. There’s no other way.
Imitation can succeed after one or two failures, but creation is the act of discovering something new after a thousand failures. For our society to become creative, there must be a culture that tolerates researchers’ countless failures throughout their exploratory processes. However, since we’ve been ranked and judged on right and wrong from a young age in school, it’s currently difficult to achieve this. Nevertheless, it’s clear that we’ve successfully imitated in a short period. While we’ve succeeded in imitation, we’ll have to wait and see how the next challenge of creation unfolds. We’ll need to observe a bit longer to see whether we’ll sink like Japan when faced with the wall of creation or if we’ll overcome it.
If an Asian person wants to come up with more innovative ideas than a Western person, it might be difficult to achieve this by studying only natural sciences. If you study Buddhism and apply Buddhist ideas, you might be able to make groundbreaking approaches that Westerners couldn’t even imagine. In the West, there are already established ways of thinking and methods for studying matter. Buddhist studies can greatly help in viewing these from a completely different angle. If Buddhist teachings are combined with natural sciences, it could produce unique results that Westerners couldn’t conceive.
Historically, new creativity has always emerged from the periphery. It’s difficult to change the mainstream of civilization through imitation alone. A society accustomed to imitation is more likely to collapse along with the mainstream civilization when it falls. Currently, we have no choice but to accept our disadvantages. However, the fact that you started learning English in middle school, not just in college, is an incredible opportunity from a different perspective.”
“Thank you. I will keep that in mind.”
The conversation ended with a big round of applause. Finally, Sunim gave some closing remarks.
“Don’t just keep the great treasure trove of Buddhist teachings locked away in the Tripitaka Koreana. I hope that all of you, regardless of your religion, will freely take out this treasure trove and make it your own nourishment.”
Next, there was a session introducing the history and activities of the General Buddhist Student Association.
Finally, the invitational lecture concluded with a recitation of the vow of the University Buddhist Student Association Union and the Four Great Vows.
Everyone gathered on stage for a commemorative photo.
After the group photo, alumni who had received Sunim’s teachings during their college years came to greet him warmly.
Sunim exchanged farewell greetings with Venerable Unseong, who serves as the guiding Dharma teacher for the General Buddhist Student Association.
“I should join the after-party, but I have to go to Ulsan now. I’m sorry.”
After leaving the lecture hall, Sunim immediately got into the car and departed Seoul for Dubuk Retreat Center.
After a 3-hour and 30-minute drive, Sunim arrived at Dubuk Jungto Retreat Center at 1 a.m. and finished the day’s schedule.
Tomorrow, the members of the community branch will do kimchi-making volunteering all day long from 6 a.m. at Dubuk Farm. Sunim plans to join the kimchi-making effort in the morning, conduct the Friday live Dharma Q&A broadcast, participate in more kimchi-making in the afternoon, then move to Jeonju and give a Dharma Q&A lecture on happy conversations in the evening.
